tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post3033824686421104622..comments2023-10-31T05:07:19.353-04:00Comments on Delenda est Carthago: Race and Jobs in Ocean HillDr. Φhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14086783503820477029noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-73802285095211935332009-08-08T01:14:15.911-04:002009-08-08T01:14:15.911-04:00Even if one is not actively persecuted, and even i...Even if one is not actively persecuted, and even if the land itself is well-governed, it sucks to be a minority. It's difficult to have a while bunch of social institutions to which you are not tied. When I was living in the Mormon West, despite living primarily among well-mannered and well-behaved whites, the sense of otherness off-set a whole lot of the advantages. And that absolutely pales in comparison to moving to an Asian country.<br /><br />If I were leaving the US, I'd probably look at Australia before looking at Canada (and Ireland would be in there somewhere), but I would look at all three of those before looking at Asian countries.Trumwillhttp://hitcoffee.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-52561207617658925682009-08-07T07:57:03.431-04:002009-08-07T07:57:03.431-04:00Newt:
Please do me the courtesy of reading what I...Newt:<br /><br />Please do me the courtesy of reading what I actually wrote:<br /><br /><i>. . . also a product of their relative lack of freedom, even compared to Canada.</i><br /><br />which, yes, also includes the use of force.<br /><br />As far as independent schools in China go, I don't have any direct knowledge of the extent to which they are banned or discouraged, but I will happily <i>infer</i> it from the general repression of independent religious and political activity. If you have specific information about their existence or their latitude, please present it. But "I doubt the Chinese government would mind" doesn't really cut it.<br /><br />If by "professional protesters" you mean paid agents of the state or the party, then professional protestors are a feature of any totalitarianism. China is an excellent example of this: the Chinese leadership can easily summon forth crowds to complain about <i>foreign</i> governments. But demonstrating against the <i>Chinese</i> government has been very dangerous since Tiananmen square.<br /><br />Don't misunderstand me: I am not an uncritical advocate of Canada. My only point is that it is (1) accessible, and (2) shares my race, language and culture to a large extent.<br /><br />But at a population of 34k and no currency, Liechtenstein doesn't even count as a real country. Neither does HK. Singapore is a little better, but that doesn't mean any of them could take large numbers of American refugees even if they wanted to, which they don't. But so what? I don't really aspire to be the new Jew, scurrying from one place to another trying not to get persecuted. I want my own country, and to be governed by my own people.<br /><br />Canada's immigration system is, on paper, pretty rational. It's true that the locusts will start eyeing Canada after they have devoured the U.S., and we'll have to see how Canada reacts.Burkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14252946969701576139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-10489654760077333602009-08-07T00:18:33.278-04:002009-08-07T00:18:33.278-04:00@Phi
Nope. You may think that the safety and dece...@Phi<br /><br />Nope. You may think that the safety and decent schools of these countries are only due to asians but I think that you are discounting these country's willingness to use force. Also, if you don't like the public schools, go to a private school where the applicants are screened. I doubt the chinese government would mind.<br /><br />"And I'm willing to bet that their public schools also have their own politically correct mythologies, to which I could object with far less freedom than I could in Canada (given their ongoing public revolt against the HRC; we'll have to see how that plays out)."<br /><br />Are you serious? Mainland China maybe but I assure you that HK has no such problems. Remember, it was under British rule until 1996 and the Chinese have basically left it alone to the point where it has its own government. Note further that there are now people in China who are "professional protesters" and it becomes clear that the Chinese is not as totalitarian as you think. Seems like you have been listening a little too much to the propaganda that is parceled off as news here.<br /><br />"Meanwhile, Canada's fiscal house is supposedly in good order, "<br /><br />Supposedly but that applies to all (or most) of the Asian countries that I mentioned.<br /><br />"and its government now eats up a smaller percentage of GDP than ours does (which means its taxes will soon be lower than ours, too). Canada also enjoys low crime and "good" schools. (Not many NAMs there, either.)"<br /><br />Smaller percentage of GDP can come from a lot of sources. In this case, it comes from the lack of an army. Regardless, this does not imply low taxes as it could also imply good tax evasion. Furthermore, Liechtenstein, Singapore, and HK (though not mainland China) have the lowest tax burden on the planet. The reason that NAMs aren't there (in Canada) right now is because the US is attractive. Once it fills up, they will move up north.<br /><br />Also, my comment on the health-care system still applies.newt0311https://www.blogger.com/profile/00275501056310821335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-51662766278095071262009-08-06T16:37:43.163-04:002009-08-06T16:37:43.163-04:00The "safety and decent schools" of China...The "safety and decent schools" of China, HK, and Singapore are mostly a product of them being full of Asians, (which wouldn't be quite as true if they suddenly took in a horde of white American refugees) but also a product of their relative lack of freedom, even compared to Canada. And I'm willing to bet that their public schools also have their own politically correct mythologies, to which I could object with far less freedom than I could in Canada (given their ongoing public revolt against the HRC; we'll have to see how that plays out). Meanwhile, Canada's fiscal house is supposedly in good order, and its government now eats up a smaller percentage of GDP than ours does (which means its taxes will soon be lower than ours, too). Canada also enjoys low crime and "good" schools. (Not many NAMs there, either.)Burkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14252946969701576139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-26092230358686137792009-08-06T12:04:35.842-04:002009-08-06T12:04:35.842-04:00Canada may be white but HK and Singapore are well ...Canada may be white but HK and Singapore are well governed. Also, China has plenty of space on the west. It's only the eastern coastal area which is saturated. The English barrier is a problem but I remember visiting HK and not having a problem with communication. There is almost always somebody around who knows English and learning another language is a small price to pay for safety, decent schools, and low taxes. Oh, and a health care system that doesn't make me wait for three months to see a doctor for basic operations...newt0311https://www.blogger.com/profile/00275501056310821335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-73818389253809346322009-08-06T11:58:58.764-04:002009-08-06T11:58:58.764-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.newt0311https://www.blogger.com/profile/00275501056310821335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-38981213768367544772009-08-06T06:45:31.537-04:002009-08-06T06:45:31.537-04:00To answer your question, it is true that the civil...To answer your question, it is true that the civil rights laws are unlikely to be repealed, for reasons I outline in the subsequent post.<br /><br />As far as refuges go, Canada has the distinction of being white and speaking English. Plus they have the space.Burkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14252946969701576139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-83410124494880110122009-08-05T17:08:54.274-04:002009-08-05T17:08:54.274-04:00Well, then I ask again, why would the left comprom...Well, then I ask again, why would the left compromise? It is winning over the time scale that matters (even though the results, once they become evident, will horrify even its staunchest advocates).<br /><br />Political correctness always was, is, and always will be a tool to beat down any inconvenient opponents. It can be used by whoever controls the information organs of a state (i.e., for us the media) and therefore, we see it being used by the left. In Nazi Germany, it was used by the right. The critical point is that even in its Breznev phase, it has lost little of its effectiveness because the left has largely taken over government through the bureaucracy.<br /><br />Also, once you start fleeing, I hope you can find better refuge than Canada. I would suggest Lichtenstein, Switzerland, Singapore, China, or my personal favorite, Hong Kong.<br /><br />I hope Vulcan Society isn't over yet but it seems unlikely that it will be appealed. The problem is that the tables were stacked against NYC fireman by the judge when deciding who would be part of the case. On one side, the judge permitted the inclusion of a lobbying group and on the other side, the judge forbid the inclusion of the NYC fireman union. The defendants here are just Mayor Bloomberg and co. and whether they will want to take the political flak for appealing this decision is unclear to me.<br /><br />For the medium term, I advise moving to an area with high land prices (if you can afford it). As you have mentioned several times, this results in filtering out most miscreants.newt0311https://www.blogger.com/profile/00275501056310821335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-69359753264645294492009-08-05T13:08:08.854-04:002009-08-05T13:08:08.854-04:00Newt: On a very long time horizon, you are correc...Newt: On a very long time horizon, you are correct. If whites continue their demographic implosion, then the rest of us will all be fleeing to Canada with the shirts on our backs.<br /><br />Looking at the medium term, I would say that political correctness is well into its Brezhnev phase in that it holds almost no power over the public mind except what it gains through force and intimidation. It's always darkest right before the dawn, etc. We may be ready for some glasnost.<br /><br />And the Vulcan Society isn't over yet.Burkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14252946969701576139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-66287899018198571862009-08-05T10:15:18.679-04:002009-08-05T10:15:18.679-04:00@Phi,
Your analysis is shallow. Over the last dec...@Phi,<br /><br />Your analysis is shallow. Over the last decade the left may seem to be on the defensive but on the historical scale (i.e., over the last few decades), the left is incontestably the absolute dominant force.<br /><br />Consider the world of the early 1900s. HBD was universally recognized. People knew that there were differences between different groups of people and therefore different programs and environments were called for. Many eminent judges actually went so far with this to call for eugenics and they were praised, not publicly humiliated for this. Contrast this with today. I don't mean to imply that eugenics is a good idea. I wish to illustrate the massive shift in the political spectrum. <br /><br />Furthermore, recent cases like Vulcan Society indicate that the left is not in as bad a shape as you make it out to be.newt0311https://www.blogger.com/profile/00275501056310821335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-43341152893531678892009-08-04T17:51:18.304-04:002009-08-04T17:51:18.304-04:00Justin: also a fair question.
My first choice fo...Justin: also a fair question.<br /><br />My first choice for public education would be radical privatization.<br /><br />Were we starting over in 1955, my sense is that white American public school students should not be forced into minority status in their own country. In districts where whites were the clear majority, this should not have been the problem that it turned out to be. But the most heartbreaking story of <i>Race and Education</i> was the district with a little school of 500 whites and a larger school of some 3000 blacks that were forced to merge. Obviously, this destroyed the community.<br /><br />But then, communities were destroyed by far less. In fact, during the 50s and 60s, many whites abandoned the schools at the first black student who set her foot through the door. This was . . . unfortunate. I would never have supported segregation that rigid, and I would be surprised to meet anyone young enough today to have school-aged kids who would act on prejudices that pristine. <br /><br />But it ought to be the responsibility of local authorities, not federal judges, to have a sense of where the tipping point is and stay clear of it. If preventing "white flight" means setting a ceiling on black students in white schools, or white students in black schools, then I'm prepared to live with that.<br /><br />This undoubtedly sounds harsh to a generation taught to regard legal segregation as America's lasting shame. And up until a couple of years ago, I would have agreed. But <i>Race and Education</i> brought the issue into sharp focus: desegregation brought massive social costs to whites, it brought zero educational benefits to all but a handful of upper-class blacks, and whatever their protestations, almost every American family is choosing as much segregation as they can afford. It's time to call a halt to the whole charade.Burkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14252946969701576139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-64728089623257447942009-08-04T15:06:02.694-04:002009-08-04T15:06:02.694-04:00Nice analysis. So you are proposing a return to s...Nice analysis. So you are proposing a return to segregated schools? Or just the ability to segregate the faculty?Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01023125641719686613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-73967130881508885702009-08-04T14:02:10.070-04:002009-08-04T14:02:10.070-04:00Newt: a good question. It is not abundantly clea...Newt: a good question. It is not abundantly clear that the Left <i>is</i> on the upside as far as racial preferences go. On the contrary, in cases before the Supreme Court, not only have they generally failed to judicially <i>impose</i> preferences since <i>Wards Cove</i> if not before, but as <i>Seattle</i> and <i>Ricci</i> demonstrate, they are losing even the preferences that they secure administratively.<br /><br />Obviously, this could change. Indeed, if the Democrat party settles into the executive for a long-term occupancy, it can be expected to change, and I guess that advocates for preferences are expecting it. But as long as the judiciary grants whites the equal protection of the laws, then disparate impact analysis is effectively dead. In the context of large minority-dominated municipalities, that puts the civil rights laws operationally on our side.<br /><br />But I would <i>still</i> trade that for political and economic freedom for the rest of the country.Burkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14252946969701576139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-4196145248498943022009-08-04T11:53:56.798-04:002009-08-04T11:53:56.798-04:00Phi,
Why would the left take your bargain when th...Phi,<br /><br />Why would the left take your bargain when they are on the upside?newt0311https://www.blogger.com/profile/00275501056310821335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29763791.post-22700212236976245262009-08-04T09:26:08.594-04:002009-08-04T09:26:08.594-04:00It may be just coincidence, but Ocean Hill-Brownsv...It may be just coincidence, but Ocean Hill-Brownsville is one of New York's relatively lower-income neighborhoods that has not seen much in the way of improvement in recent years. Harlem and Bedford-Stuyvesant are better places than they were 15 or 20 years ago. Ocean Hill-Brownsville has more or less stagnated.<br /><br />PeterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com