Thursday, October 08, 2009

The Difference between Theory and Practice

On the face of it, this is a good message:

*

Well, okay, maybe the standard issue country music video T&A isn't the highlight of Western Culture, but the words are worthwhile. But that said . . . perhaps I've grown overly cynical from the blogs I read, but my fear is that the message -- watch out for players and PUAs -- isn't worth much by the time it gets through female mental filters.

Looks like a cool drink of water but
he's candy coated misery
He's the devil in disguise
A snake with blue eyes
And he only comes out at night
He gives you feelings that you dont want to fight . . . .

But PUAs are good at what they do precisely because of their ability to fly under just this type of radar. The guys that get shot down are the same no-game beta providers that have an uphill climb anyway.

So what happens is that when you tell girls, "There are some bad, bad players out there, so be careful," they impute the "bad, bad player" quality to the guys they already weren't enthusiastic about. It becomes a justification for being cold and bitchy to people who really didn't deserve it. Meanwhile, PUAs do their thing unimpeded.

Anyway, that's my theory.

* Yes, I know that the video didn't embed. Does anybody know how to hack YouTube's embed restriction? I found lots of material on how to break their download restriction, how to break ISP host country restrictions, and also how to get higher resolution out of their videos, but nothing on how to embed a video in a website that YouTube doesn't want embedded.

14 comments:

Justin said...

"Dont even look in his eyes,
He'll tell you nothin but lies.
And you want to believe,
but you wont be decieved,
if you listen to me and take my advice."

I don't think PUAs fly under the radar, as you posit they might.

I worked this amazing thing called "Authentic Nice Guy" Game, wow, I know, I should write a book. It hooked chicks like a drug. Because once they realize you aren't a manipulative flake like the majority of Game players out there, but have high standards and are actually interested in them as a person (I know, wacky concept huh), you are like a god walking among mortals.

Contra Game theory, girls really aren't that stupid.

Social skills: yes. Game: no. It is sign of the decadance of our time that good people are led to glean social skills from pornographic and nihilistic sites like in the Roissysphere.

Soul. Killing. Poison.

Φ said...

As I have elsewhere elaborated, I have an ambivalent emotional relationship with Roissyism. I have no truck with the porn and nihilism, although I tend not to interpret the latter quite at face value.

And I never said girls were stupid. I said most of them lack self-awareness.

I can't claim to find girls very interesting as persons, although I'm happy for you that you can. The truth is there aren't very many people of either sex who inherently hold my interest independent of some ulterior motive, and of the few exceptions, only one is a female. People in general are soul-killingly, poisonously boring. No, the only fun part about having a conversation with an attractive woman is that she is an attractive woman. Otherwise, I only care about her in the way I care about things that I know I'm supposed to care about. Which is to say that I really couldn't give less of a damn.

So obviously, somebody like me has got to fake it. I don't mean flake (which in any case is a female specialty), and I don't mean anything immoral or dishonorable. I mean that "social skill" is primarily an exercise of pretending to be something that I am not. Authenticity is exactly the wrong advice.

But, hey, you should totally write a book!

Φ said...

I should add that there are, of course, exceptions to every generality. For instance, Mrs. Φ, in her telling, was skeptical of conventionally charismatic men. Luckily for me. :-)

Hermes said...

Good point, Phi, and something that's glossed over in all the seduction literature I've seen so far. For lots of guys, myself included, learning how to be better with women is a COLOSSAL amount of work, bordering on not being worth it, precisely because I utterly don't care about the kind of topics that interest most girls, yet to become successful it seems you must become able to talk about them naturally and fluidly for hours on end.

trumwill said...

One of the things I wish I'd learned a long time ago is that it really isn't worth it to try to contort yourself too much to the interests of a woman. Seriously, I spent years trying to "normalize" myself in that regard. Wasted time. Broadening interests is good for a variety of reasons, but faking interests is something of a dead end.

Ferdinand Bardamu said...

Justin:

"Because once they realize you aren't a manipulative flake like the majority of Game players out there"

"Flake"? What are you talking about?

"but have high standards and are actually interested in them as a person (I know, wacky concept huh), you are like a god walking among mortals."

So your alternative to game is a variant on "treat women like human beings" or the other deluded, empty platitudes that feminists spout? Forgive me if I don't take you seriously.

"Social skills: yes. Game: no."

Game = social skills.

"It is sign of the decadance of our time that good people are led to glean social skills from pornographic and nihilistic sites like in the Roissysphere."

A sick society calls for sick strategies. Unless you've got a better solution, but I'm not holding my breath.

"Soul. Killing. Poison."

*Sigh* Spoken like a man who has no idea what game is.

Thursday said...

But PUAs are good at what they do precisely because of their ability to fly under just this type of radar.

Exactly. If a guy is smooth, the girl will never know game is being run on her. And it isn't just women that get fooled. PUAs tell stories of how brothers will hand over their sisters to absolute snakes. As George Burns once said, "The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that you've got it made."

Which is why it is important that you tell girls how important it is, at the very least, to really get to know a man over an extended period of time before sex.

Thursday said...

As for learning about specifically female interests, I agree that you don't have to become an expert in fashion or astrology to do well with women, but at a bare minimum you do need to be interested in people. Some interest in the arts doesn't hurt either.

Thursday said...

I should clarify that game doesn't have to make you a bad guy, but it does give you the power to be bad if you should want to. Furthermore, a bad guy wouldn't necessarily need to be conciously deceptive to girls about his character, because if you are attractive enough all sorts of good qualities you don't have will be imputed to you.

Justin said...

Hermes: speaking of mind-numbing female companionship, I once had a girl talk for six straight hours, I kid you not. I just smiled and nodded for six straight hours, she did ALL of the talking.

F.B. you are out of line with your personal attacks. Man up, address the issues and stop talking like a bitch.

I'm not going to argue any specific points with you, since you are obviously a moral degenerate yourself, with your affirmation of "sick stratgies for a sick society" crapola. Hey, at least you own it, good for you.

Mainly, I am trying to reach out to otherwise normal men who are being seduced by all this morally-degenerate alpha-posturing internet text-porn that we call the Roissysphere.

Justin said...

Great points, Thursday. Did you see the article on How To Date a Beta Guy? Author recommended a 4-date rule for sex, just to stymie and flush out the players using the 3-date rule.

Rather than becoming an expert in female interests, I think it falls under the traditional category of "being a good conversationalist". Makes you fun at a dinner party, good on a date, impressive to parents, etc. A good women also learns those same skills, so as not to bore potential suiters with mindless superficiality.

Men who use their conversational skills for seducation were traditionally called "sweet-talkers", and Carrie Underwood correctly warns girls to avoid them.

For whatever reason, some men define themselves by their ability to bed women, as today's Gamers in fact idealize. Steering girls away from such cads is a public service, for both women and men.

Clearly, few of these jackasses have a daughter, sister, or even a female friend, and certainly no compassion or emphathy for their fellow humans.

Ferdinand Bardamu said...

Thursday:

"Furthermore, a bad guy wouldn't necessarily need to be conciously deceptive to girls about his character, because if you are attractive enough all sorts of good qualities you don't have will be imputed to you."

Well said. Evil people rarely, if ever, think of themselves as evil, which is part of their insidiousness.

Justin:

"F.B. you are out of line with your personal attacks. Man up, address the issues and stop talking like a bitch."

If you can't handle someone attacking you on an internet board, don't comment on internet boards. Nonetheless, out of respect for Φ, this will be my last reply to you on this post.

"I'm not going to argue any specific points with you, since you are obviously a moral degenerate yourself, with your affirmation of "sick stratgies for a sick society" crapola. Hey, at least you own it, good for you."

Moral condemnation is the last refuge of a coward. How conveniently it excuses you from having to defend your positions! Take your own advice, pal, and stop shirking away "like a bitch."

"Mainly, I am trying to reach out to otherwise normal men who are being seduced by all this morally-degenerate alpha-posturing internet text-porn that we call the Roissysphere."

You're not going to get anywhere if all have to offer is self-serving platitudes like "Because once they realize you aren't a manipulative flake like the majority of Game players out there, but have high standards and are actually interested in them as a person (I know, wacky concept huh), you are like a god walking among mortals."

Or, to put it another way, there is a reason why there is a Roissysphere and no Justinosphere. Meditate on that, buddy.

Anonymous said...

"Carrie Underwood correctly warns girls to avoid them"

Carrie Underwood? The girl whose biggest hit was a song about screwing guys without even knowing their last names?

Φ said...

Anon: Which song is that? I'm not really familiar with Carrie's oeuvre.

Maybe she grew up a little since then?